30 October 2010 @ 06:46 am
Doctor-Companion meta  
More Donna thoughts~

So, Donna has self confidence issues, partly to do with her mother, doubtlessly partly to do with many other things, but Turn Left and Journey's End make it clear she does. as Ten.5 observed, she 'screams at the universe, because who would listen otherwise? And why should they?' Even in SitL/FotD she makes similar comments, like ditching on herself for her 'ideal man'.

It's been observed how terrible it was to wipe Donna's memories in JE because she 'finally realized how brilliant she was'. I say...no, she didn't. Yes, she was confident and awesomesauce as DoctorDonna, but that's not because she realized she really was special and brilliant on her own. Comments like "See, I really get this stuff now" and similar she made through the explanation and BWB suggest to me, that she found a self-worth in the fact that she was now as clever (cleverer) and brilliant as the Doctor. She wasn't 'just a temp' anymore, she was an impossible, fantastic human-Time Lord metacrisis with access and understanding of the whole entire universe.

When she argued that she'd rather die than go back, she didn't argue she'd rather die than forget how amazing she was, she didn't want to 'go back'. She couldn't bear to go back to living that dull, empty life she had (and why should she? Losing all the memories of the wonders of the universe forever? Terrible.). I don't think there's really enough of her in EoT 1/2 to say if she realized how awesome she was on her own later, but the fact that Wilf thought she was sort of...'drifting' and unhappy doesn't imply she found a grand and fulfilling life for herself, even with Sylvia's support. Though this may have changed later.

In fact, I think, the only time Donna truly felt she was and could be important and brilliant and amazing all on her own was Turn Left. When she chose to go back and save the world and bring back 'the Doctor's world', I think there she truly believed what Rose said about her being brilliant and special.

This...makes an interesting thought for me.

Even though the Doctor showed Donna 'a better way of living her life', turned it all around from empty temping to saving the universe, he never really seemed to succeed in showing her how brilliant she was. He thought she was brilliant, completely. He even told her that as Ten.5, but I don't think she really believed him.

Yet Rose, with only a few brief meetings, showed a woman with none of the other Donna's experiences, who hadn't saved entire races and seen the universe and saved planets and the universe, that she was amazing and could make a difference just exactly as she was.

Rose says "That's what the Doctor does, he shows you you're brilliant", but I'm not so sure that's actually true. He brings out that brilliance, yes...but honestly? I don't think he does much of a job of turning a mirror on the companion and going "Look at you! You are amazing!"

It makes me consider...is this the same, at least in NuWho, with the others? Mickey found his own way to being more than the Tin Dog, the Doctor refused to acknowledge that at all until he did it himself. Martha decided she was 'too good' to pine after the Doctor after going on a trip on her own and saving the world herself, without the Doctor. It's hard to say about Rose. She seemed to get it, and come onto her own because of the Doctor, instead of in spite of him, but then again so did Jack, who clearly accredited the Doctor for his change.

So, perhaps it's just Ten (and we've yet to see about Eleven) who failed at it? Or perhaps Rose and Jack both had 'wake up's I'm forgetting or we missed. To be fair, Rose flails at Christmas Invasion, but she's already said in PotW that "He taught me a better way of living my life etc"

What do you think? I'm not saying Rose is wrong that he shows people how to be better, leads them on the road to being amazing...

But does he actually show them it?

And if not, what's it say about Rose that, in so short a time, she could do for Donna what the Doctor never could?
 
 
Current Mood: thoughtful
 
 
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[identity profile] styromgalleries.livejournal.com on October 31st, 2010 12:33 am (UTC)
i need more donna icons loaded
Very interesting. Maybe part of the reason Rose succeeds is the very very dire situation. Not that the Doctor and Donna didn't get into some very prickly situations, of course.

And maybe the fact that Rose is also human. Not only does this alien who's sometimes prone to having little fits of love and adoration for the human race, but another human being, when we're all mostly blind and dull and focused on ourselves, saw something great in Donna. Does that make any sense? IDK.

Edited 2010-10-31 12:33 am (UTC)
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[identity profile] darkbunnyrabbit.livejournal.com on November 1st, 2010 09:29 am (UTC)
I have none, so...
This is true, I considered the fact that it could have been Rose being human that is more believable than the Doctor who has his fits of fanboyism, but then the question still remains--could he do something differently to get the message across?
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kilodalton[personal profile] kilodalton on October 31st, 2010 12:59 am (UTC)
"And if not, what's it say about Rose that, in so short a time, she could do for Donna what the Doctor never could?"

Julie Gardner makes a comment (sorta kinda) to this effect, except re. Rose and TenToo. The line on BWB "you made me better - now you can do the same for him" is supposed to underscore the Doctor-esque behavior Rose displayed in Turn Left. By telling Rose that "she makes people better," -- which is what the Doctor is supposed to do -- Julie Gardner said that the Doctor was really paying her the highest possible compliment, that she, in a way, is like "the Doctor" in terms of making things (and people) better. The reference was specific to TenToo, but I think that to your point, it works for Donna too.
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[identity profile] darkbunnyrabbit.livejournal.com on November 1st, 2010 09:30 am (UTC)
This is true, She certainly has taken on the Doctor's mantle in many ways. Although it remains, if she's doing what the Doctor's meant to do, why isn't he doing it for Donna already?
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[identity profile] rosaxx50.livejournal.com on October 31st, 2010 01:23 am (UTC)
I think in Donna's case, it's got a lot to do with how Rose has *been* there. Unlike Martha and most of the Old Who companions, her life was going nowhere at all until she met the Doctor, so she understands better than the Doctor, who's always been wild and free and everything. (And, though not part of TL, both she and Donna have some moment when they realize what they missed out on when they said 'no' the first time).

As for the Doctor 'showing them', I've always imagined that it wasn't the Doctor directly, but the life he introduces them to. Even having a Time Lord admire you doesn't compare to actually going out there and seeing the difference that you've made. From what I've seen.
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[identity profile] darkbunnyrabbit.livejournal.com on November 1st, 2010 09:33 am (UTC)
Well, Donna really didn't know much about Rose. No one did in TL, I wouldn't be surprised if Donna wasn't even sure if she was 100% human by the end. Rose was that mysterious person the Doctor is to Donna in TL.

Yeah, that's basically what I get out of the concept, myself, but still, even though Donna was brilliant, she never seemed to recognize it, while Donna from TL does what she does even without living that life with the Doctor, and actually has a measure of that confidence and understanding that main!Donna never does.
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